Imported Comments:
Anon: Yesterday
For just a token, with keywords such as Celerity and Rebirth, Ripper has an incredible burst potential and can pose an incredibly big threat with its extended mobility.
Ripper acts basically as an answer-or-die minion due to the strong interactions it can benefit from with cards such as Greater Fortitude or Wild Inceptor/Eggmorph.
Aside from the stats and the keyword, another solution which could be somehow in line with an "egg logic" could be that it must be summoned behind Ragnora.
Jim Reed 8 hours ago
Too strong because it comes with two keywords. It should be nerfed IMO.
DeathsAdvocate yesterday at 5:18 PM
Rag: Either hatch cards or rippers themselves need to be addressed. Charm is also a bit over tuned, but we do not want to go overboard either. One small adjustment like rippers to 2/1, hatch cards buffed but exhausting, removing rebirth, or replacing celerity with movement. But only one of these.
Chris Feb 5 at 8:49 AM
I changed my IGN to ripper is bullshit several months ago.
That is all.
Casdrop Feb 4 at 5:33 PM
3/1 with rebirth and can move twice
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DeathsAdvocate Feb 10 at 6:04 PM
Jim Reed 2 hours ago (edited)
I am a big yes for a change to trials, so as long as there's some change to it I'm happy. Take into account that I'm not much of a card player and my opinion is just one out of many different ones. Older card players that have played numerous CCGs have a better grasp of balance and should be the ones that should be voicing themselves here, not me ^^
Qazzquimby 3 hours ago
@jimreed45 I think people here are generally in favor of counterplay, so the effects could probably become interactive, such as ending if the minion dies or something
Jim Reed 4 hours ago
You can counter a card that costs 6 mana, but when a trial completes it's usually game over more or less. I understand the point of a trial but it's limiting other decks that are targeted towards longer games. What's worse, usually there is nothing much you can do except pre empt them with aggro, trying to kill them before they complete. This is pretty limiting.
Qazzquimby 4 hours ago
@jimreed45 how is that different from the faction just having a 6 mana bomb? Amount of counterplay?
Jim Reed 8 hours ago
I'm totally against all trial decks as they push every other deck to win by 6 mana or probably lose more or less. In essence they are limiting a lot of deck builds from being competitive thus reducing the game variety.
Atheistmantis Feb 5 at 3:55 AM (edited)
@qazzquimby perhaps buffing only the neutrals would be a bit too much, and maybe "that" diversity would suffer, but is the lesser evil considering how Wanderer is way too relevant in Duelyst. The deck that was just supposed to allow small collections to be used in a deck, became one of the strongest archetype in the whole game. And I am not a fan of that, so if Wanderer would get deleted/nerfed to the ground, I would be happier.
Qazzquimby Feb 4 at 10:24 PM
atheistmantis People won't have empty collections. Opinions for card progression go from "very fast collecting" to "own all cards from the beginning."
What I meant was that with the focus on neutral cards, Wanderer decks would look the same for all factions, and diversity suffers.
Atheistmantis Feb 4 at 5:25 PM
@qazzquimby I'm not completely sure of what you mean, but my idea basically would make Wanderer less of an option to abuse token BBSs, and more a noob friendly deck for ppl who have mainly 1x.
Also it's the Neutral Mythron, so I liked the idea of having the buff for its "faction" only.
Qazzquimby Feb 4 at 5:19 PM
atheistmantis I'm not very familiar, but doesn't that change wanderer from ~1 deck per faction to ~1 deck?
Atheistmantis Feb 4 at 5:09 PM
Wanderer
4/4
All your Neutral non token minions gain +1/+1.
I'd make the Destiny triggering eternally but dispellable on already played units if stuff like Bender or EMP are played.
Chris Feb 3 at 11:25 AM
@deathsadvocate I never really remember lillithe, or zirix, reva wanderer being crazy strong.
And Abyss even has the flash spell.
DeathsAdvocate Feb 3 at 10:35 AM
@smash_the_hamster All heros with Summon BBs performed extremely well.
Chris Feb 3 at 10:13 AM (edited)
I'm okay with highlander decks existing.
For the most part I'd argue that what made wanderer so strong was that the ripper egg was hard to kill. -- So really, Wanderer just exploited an already broken hero power.
Maybe someone can correct me, but as I recall the only wander deck that seemed legit top-tier was mag.
DeathsAdvocate Feb 1 at 8:43 PM (edited)
@qazzquimby My bias is big on this one. But I am fundamentally against the highlander aspect.
Qazzquimby Feb 1 at 8:22 PM
@deathsadvocate We want to avoid it being on top of the meta, but there are people who enjoy it. I think there's probably a better option than removing it or nerfing it to unplayability.
Casdrop Feb 1 at 7:45 PM
Wanderer 6 mana 6/6
Trial: have no dupes in deck
Destiny: give minions in your deck +1/+1
Cade Huskey Jan 31 at 4:10 PM
Change its effect to make you want to run a highlander deck(not sure what yet), not just getting insane benefits and consistancy from doing so.
DeathsAdvocate Jan 30 at 12:09 PM
Kill it. Not only is it OP, but highlander by its very nature is crapshoot RNG that we want to avoid.
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Atheistmantis Feb 4 at 6:08 PM
@deathsadvocate I don't really agree on your evaluation of Kha, and I don't agree with what you say about it removing important balance-keeping archetypes.
Clearly we share several points on the other archetypes.
About Kha: your evaluation looks suspiciously from a Vaath Smash player point of view, because that archetype was hit the hardest (which is not too bad of a thing considering the old Saurian meta), so to me not quite objective.
Frankly I don't see Kha on its own being a very big problem for other archetypes and factions, especially if played without Fault.
Even after what I just said, I could actually agree that a 4/3 tribal Flyer with Rush is indeed inherently wrong, but considering what kind of counters Vet used to have against Magmar, ranged/campered units, and Generals with buffed attack, I think Kha on its own is justified.
The fact that you can abuse it with Fault, and facilitated by Rae, is not.
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DeathsAdvocate Feb 4 at 5:44 PM (edited)
atheistmantis Kha is an inherently bad design combining two keywords in a way that not only allow it to completely ignore the board, but also has been one of the most polarizing cards ever created completely removing archetypes from the meta that normally serve as important checks and balances. Fault/Rae existed for a long time together and were never a problem, Fault/Kha existed for a time WITHOUT rae and was still a problem. Kha is definitely the core of the problem and is horrible design all around. I am fine with rae also getting hit, but flying/rush should never be printed together. Now fault its self I find extremely well designed, its powerful but slow with loads of board based counter-play and there are ways to get rid of tiles. I want to see more of these effects.
Rag: Either hatch cards or rippers themselves need to be addressed. Charm is also a bit over tuned, but we do not want to go overboard either. One small adjustment like rippers to 2/1, hatch cards buffed but exhausting, removing rebirth, or replacing celerity with movement. But only one of these.
Wander: Kill it, highlander is RNG crapshoot that we do not want, on top of it being OP.
Ziran: Beam and Vitrol give her the ability to play burn when she has no business doing so. Cleric might be a little overtuned but I do not think is the root of the problem. I would say make beam cost one but be unable to target generals, vitirol one cost one damage. And moving cleric to two mana could do the trick.
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Atheistmantis Feb 4 at 5:06 PM
Rag: complete rework on Ripper (or rework on Celerity), possibly review the Rebirth mechanic. Charm needs some kind of rework, like target only nearby eggs, increase its cost, or target only non token eggs.
Wanderer: I'd just cancel all Mythron cards and recycle their animation for some cool units. That said, alternatively, I'd make Wanderer a 4/4 that buffs only non token cards, perhaps even just neutral minions.
Burn Ziran: Cleric and Lucent Beam are the main problematic cards. Reworking those could possibly make the deck more balanced.
I'm not sure about the tiles, but perhaps the way Vitriol hits the targets could be reworked to allow to be played around in some way.
Fault: Rae no more a 0 mana minion, to start.
I'd keep Kha as it is because keeps an eye on Ziran and Vaath's habit of getting too thick.
Fault could be changed in many ways, but maybe the problem are the Vet tiles. Sometimes I think it should just cost 8 and spawn the Dervishes from when it's cast, or that the tiles should disappear at the end of your next turn.
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Casdrop Feb 1 at 7:44 PM
Kha 4 mana 4/3:
Flying Rush
Dying wish: transform a friendly dervish into this the first time this dies every turn
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Casdrop Feb 1 at 7:38 PM
Wanderer 6 mana 6/6
Trial: have no dupes in deck
Destiny: give minions in your deck +1/+1
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DeathsAdvocate Feb 1 at 7:23 PM
I think the simplest thing to do is just use the team wars ban list for now. We can debate on how to change them later. For now just no Fault/Charm/Cleric/Wanderer.
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